Re: 亞美尼亞是否有馬超家族後裔

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發信人: 百厭星 <bakyimsing@no_mail.com>, 看板: history
標  題: Re: 亞美尼亞是否有馬超家族後裔
發信站:  (Mon Jan 23 21:55:16 2006)
轉信站: Lion!news.nsysu!news.isu!News.a6Crazy.twbbs.org!news.au!news.ntu!Spring
Origin: 71.242.143.13

我也無從解釋。不過根據阿美尼亞古史關於這個
家族(寫於公元500)就是這樣寫。

又查查網頁﹐又問問住在附近的阿美尼亞人。原來
Mamikonean, Mamikonian, Mamikonyan 都係
Mamikon 族的意思。Mamikon 就跟馬超的別字馬
孟起的讀音非常相似了。

這個馬孟起族﹐在阿美尼亞歷史上是一個名族。世代
子孫都武藝超凡。到 Vardan Mamikonyan 時﹐更
率領阿美尼亞人抵抗波斯侵略而犧牲。被阿美尼亞人
封為聖人。在阿國首都中心有其騎馬打仗時的銅像。
在阿美尼亞﹐最高的戰功獎就是 varden Mamikonyan
獎。

http://schools.ascp.am/gyumri20/figures/V.Mamikonayn.htm
http://www.kochar.am/works/vardan.htm
http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?title=Vardan_Mamikonian

又這個族原來流傳極廣。就算我住的費城區域﹐
都有阿美尼亞人姓這個姓氏。據聞﹐這個族姓
的人﹐都知道他們的遠祖來自我們偉大祖國。

http://www.physics.drexel.edu/~ernest/

又俄國的肉食公會主席 Musheg Mamikonyan 這是這族
的后代。

http://www.meatprocess.com/news/ng.asp?id=64318-bird-flu-chicken-prices
"Now everybody in the world is focused on chicken
dseases, therefore people are afraid of purchasing
this type of meat,” said Musheg Mamikonyan,
chairman of the Russian Meat Union.



"Liar大話精" wrote:

> 百厭星兄你熟波斯新聞,
> 我想問你,
> 波斯邊一時邊一刻要買天朝的怕,
> 中國向波斯要人, 波斯就會交人?
> 波斯驚中國打佢呀?
> 距離又遠, 國力又差唔多.
>
> "百厭星" <bakyimsing@no_mail.com> 撰寫於郵件新聞:43D43626.8B36031B@no_mail.com...
> > 這家族的後人﹕
> > http://www.colbertartists.com/ArtistBio.asp?ID=42
> >
> > 百厭星 wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.guxiang.com/lishi/mi/sanguo/200011/200011300034.htm
> >>
> >> 三國時期﹐馬騰﹑馬超父子皆是政治鬥爭中的悲劇人物。東漢建安十六年（211）﹐馬
> >>
> >>
> >> 超與韓遂等西北名將﹐聯兵十萬進軍潼關﹐反對挾天子以令諸侯的曹操。曹操收買
> >>
> >> 韓遂﹐擊敗馬超後﹐即把身在中央﹑官任衛尉的馬騰殺死﹐並𣑐i三族㷍C在鄴都及
> >>
> >> 許昌的馬氏家族遭到滅門之禍。馬超輾轉投靠漢中張魯﹐及劉備入蜀﹐因見張魯庸
> >>
> >> 弱﹐㨩ㄗ牴P計事㷍M又轉奔蜀請降劉備﹐被封為平西將軍。馬超的家屬留在漢中
> >> ﹐在張魯降附曹操時又被張魯殺死。所以﹐後世常為馬氏家族的厄運惋借。然而﹐當
> >>
> >>
> >> 代史學家蘇仲翔提出一個有關馬氏家族的令人驚喜的新線索﹐即有一名馬氏孤兒逃
> >>
> >> 脫族誅之禍﹐且復興馬氏家族于異國。這就是亞美尼亞古國的著名歷史學家摩西在
> >>
> >> 他所著的《亞美尼亞史記》中記述的馬抗。摩西享有亞美尼亞文學之父的美譽﹐一般
> >>
> >>
> >> 認為他生活于公元五世紀。其著《亞美尼亞史記》﹐是亞美尼亞歷史的開山之作﹐其
> >>
> >>
> >> 中記述在公元二世紀時有中國僑民移居亞美尼亞﹐被安排定居于庫爾德地區。在亞
> >>
> >> 美尼亞的世族中﹐也有來自中國的華裔﹐如奧爾佩利家族﹐其祖先據說出自中國帝
> >>
> >> 系﹐中國皇帝自稱𤧣??不?㷍M因此他們被稱為𤧣茪?家族㷍C書中還記述另一
> >> 出自華裔的世族﹐為护谷怍ㄔ妙a族(Mamikonian)㷍M其始祖名馬抗﹐是摩西誕生
> >> 二百年前由中國遷去的。據稱其父為中國帝王﹐名阿波格﹐馬抗因罪出走波斯﹐中
> >>
> >> 國向波斯追緝﹐馬抗遂又離開當時由薩珊王朝開國之君阿爾達希一世統治的波斯﹐
> >>
> >> 西奔至亞美尼亞。亞美尼亞王蒂裡達特斯二世﹐將達隆省分封給馬抗﹐亞美尼亞的
> >>
> >> 馬氏家族從此肇始。阿爾達希一世統治時期在公元226一240年﹐蒂裡達特斯二世統
> >>
> >> 治時期在公元217-238年﹐都在馬氏族誅之後﹐時間相當。再參照馬家姓氏﹑中國追
> >>
> >> 緝﹑冒稱帝王等情況﹐馬抗之為馬氏後裔﹐就若合符契了。至於𪑛慜i格𤧅妨_名﹐
> >>
> >> 似乎又是馬抗自稱𢬢顒i麼圲Y伏波將軍馬援之後裔的字音演變。中國曆史上名門
> >> 巨族在政治變亂中遭到族誅之禍而終有幸運逃脫的孤兒之悲劇不一而足﹐民間歷史
> >>
> >> 演義小說中更是常有所見。三國時期馬超家族後裔遠遁亞美尼亞﹐並保存馬
> >> 氏一脈于亞洲西部之說﹐有亞美尼亞歷史典籍可作依據﹐或許不至於流為荒誕。
> >>
> >> ___________________________
> >>
> >> 以下是阿美尼亞歷史回顧關於這 Mamikonian 豪族源於中國
> >> 的歷史。
> >>
> >> http://www.rbedrosian.com/china.htm
> >>
> >> The geographical sources considered above are, relatively speaking, late
> >>
> >> sources (7th, 8th, late 13th, early 14th centuries). There exist several
> >>
> >> earlier classical Armenian sources which contain references to China,
> >> or rather, to the Chinese origin of an important Armenian family. The
> >> sources in question are two 5-6th century compilations, the anonymous
> >> so-called Primary History of Armenia, and the History of P'awstos
> >> Buzand. According to the Primary History, in the early 200's A.D. two
> >> sons of an important Chinese noble rebelled against Chenbakur, the
> >> Emperor of China, who was their half-brother. When the rebellion
> >> failed, they fled for refuge to the Parthian king of Iran. But the
> >> Emperor
> >> of China demanded that the rebels be sent home to face justice. The
> >> Parthian king, not wanting to kill the fugitives, but wanting to mollify
> >>
> >> Chenbakur, sent the two rebels, named Mamik and Konak, to
> >> Armenia in the west (12).
> >>
> >> The Chinese origin of the Mamikoneans is alluded to twice in the 5th
> >> century History of Armenia by P'awstos Buzand. In the first instance,
> >> the Armenian king Pap (A.D. 367-374) told prince Mushegh
> >> Mamikonean that the Mamikoneans were as respect-worthy as
> >> the Armenian royal house itself. For, he says, "their ancestors left
> >> the kingship of the land of Chenk', and came to our ancestors [in
> >> Armenia] (13). The second reference to the Chinese ancestry of the
> >> Mamikoneans appears later in the same History. In this episode, the
> >> Mamikonean prince Manuel boldly informed king Varazdat of Armenia
> >> (374-378) that the Mamikoneans were not the vassals of the royal
> >> house, but its equals. "For", he said, "our ancestors were kings of the
> >> land of Chen. Because of a quarrel among brothers, to prevent great.
> >> bloodshed we left [that land]. And to find rest, we stopped here
> >> [in Armenia] (14).
> >>
> >> Armenists have interpreted the information found in the Primary History
> >> and in P'aswtos in a variety of ways. For example, Nicholas Adontz in
> >> 1908 speculated that when the early sources spoke of "the Chenk"' they
> >> referred not to the Chinese, but to the Tzans, a warlike people of the
> >> Caucasus who lived near the Mamikoneans' hereditary lands in
> >> northwestern
> >> Armenia. He derived the name Mamikonean from Georgian mama (meaning
> >> "father") plus the Armenian deminuitive ending ik (15). Adontz was
> >> challenged by Michael Toumanean who, in an article published in 1911,
> >> sought to identify Armenian Chenk' with the house of Cheng which ruled
> >> south of Lo Yang in the 5-4th centuries B.C.
> >>
> >> According to Toumanean, the Mamikonean emigration from Cheng took
> >> place around 221 B.C., at the time of the Qin conquests, when the Man
> >> people were expelled. To Toumanean, the name Mamikonean derives from
> >> Gun-Man or Xu-Gun Man which was the hereditary title of the head of the
> >> house of Cheng (16). The orientalist H. Skold in 1925 expressed the view
> >>
> >> that the Chenk' were not Chinese, but a Turkic group dwelling by the
> >> Syr-
> >> Darya river (17). H. Svazyan, who placed the Chenk' between the Amu-
> >> Darya and Syr-Darya rivers, suggested that the Mamikoneans may have
> >> come from Bactria (18). Finally, Cyril Toumanoff pointed out that the
> >> Mamikoneans' claim of exotic royal origins was nothing unusual within
> >> the
> >> Armenian political reality. For other families too claimed distinctive
> >> foreign
> >> origins. The Bagratids, for example, considered themselves descendants
> >> of
> >> the Biblical king David of Israel, while the Artsrunids claimed descent
> >> from
> >> the ancient kings of Assyria (19). Nonetheless, Toumanoff notes that the
> >>
> >> Mamikonean legend does concern China, even though the legend may not
> >> be true (20).
> >>
> >> The origin of the Mamikoneans remains an issue of debate which probably
> >> will not be definitively resolved--at least based on the presently
> >> available
> >> Armenian historical sources (21). As for the geographical sources, for
> >> them
> >> China was a land of fantastic wealth; acknowledged, but not well known.
> >>
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Vartan
> >> Mamikonian or Mamikoneans was a noble family which dominated Armenian
> >> politics between the 4th and 8th centuruies. They ruled the Armenian
> >> regions
> >> of Taron, Sasun, Bagrevand and others. The family later claimed descent
> >> from
> >> Chinese emperors of Han dynasty
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